High Lakes

[Pantheus]

I wrote a private email this morning to several interested parties,  but since a nit twit has already posted that email on another board, I may as well post it here, too. (scratch one from my mailing list)

Howdy All,

As you heard yesterday, at the Chester meeting, I'm sure, the
"Discussion Draft" comment form, has a mere 2 weeks, not the normal 45
days to submit all comments on the plan that we talked about Thursday
night, and Saturday.  It has to be POSTMARKED AUGUST 1 .

While this may be an unreasonable time frame, it's all we have.

We need to get energized again, and get these comment forms in.

Frankly there is little to no reason to comment on Saddle lake. Except
perhaps to volunteer to help fix it, when the time comes.  It's a mess
and will likely be closed `1-2 YEARS.  Discussions can't really even
begin until after all of the rest of the surveys happen later this
summer, and some aren't even scheduled yet.  ( Cultural, Historical,
Archaeological, and some more)

The problem with the closure of the road to Chips Lake access appears to
be that the Lake itself is slightly outside the OHV area boundary,  but
the access road sure isn't all outside.  Since it is impossible to drive
to the lake, and the best access is the cliff above it, and a hike down,
 that access to the cliff is now off the plan. How about we lobby, on
the comment form, to open it as far as legally possible?

We know what the issue is with Pipejam,  and think we can get most or
all of that fixed...  but it ain't gonna happen very soon. But a "path"
is identified to doing that.

The Grassy Lake part of the loop, is still very questionable,  but we're
going on-the-ground  with them and try to sort that one out.  More as it
becomes known.

One big issue for me is that the access to Bear Lake itself has actually
been eliminated.  Yes, we can go to the intersection of Rock Creek, but
not DRIVE to the camp, or Lake.  I know of no reason for that to not be
open.  I camped there last Saturday night, and I don't want that to be
the last time.  That can and SHOULD be commented on.

Although it appears on the draft map that we can no longer go to Ben
Lomand.  That omission is because it becomes Plumas N.F. just past
Shores Gap and can't be ON the Lassen N.F. map,  it *IS* open past what
the map shows to the old lookout point.

If there are any issues that can be covered with the comment form,  get
them in before August 1 .

The "draft" map that is "official" NOW (or will be when the comments
period ends), shows NO LEGAL ACCESS what so ever to the High Lakes.
With the normal entrance being through private property at Lott lake,
and continuing through private SPI land at Spring Valley, plus the
"emergency" closure, the map shows NO LEGAL access to the High Lakes.
Although verbal agreements may be in "place",  there appears to be no
legal ingress.   But since "that" would close the entire area,  the map
is incorrect in that regard.  But remember all other ingress / egress to
High lakes ARE legally closed.  Plus remember that ANY travel off any
designated trail is illegal,  and that includes the Rock garden,  and
all cross travel, not on a marked trail.  Remember that the entire High
Lakes OHV area is CLOSED, unless marked open.

I'm sure you all heard that a green-stickered vehicle (non-street legal,
but stickered) can go on county-type roads, for UP TO 3 miles.  (Where
in the past it might have been limited to crossing the road-only) So
those of you and us, who trailer to Inskip cannot cruise (legally)
unlicensed to the High lakes any longer, per CVC, (not a Forest Service
issue,  but Cal. Vehicle code.)  Trailering to Philbrook (and driving to
Spring Valley) doesn't 'appear' legal, either, as that is also more than
3 miles.   So it "appears" that the huge space to the left of the Lott
lake "T", is all that might be legal, for High lakes access by
non-licensed, but green/red stickered vehicles.

I've attached a comment form that you can download and fill out.  I have
a few copies,  and you can get some at the Off_Road Center at 8935  Shyway,
Paradise. If they don't get and agree with the comments,  then what you see now on
the draft is what we get.

Here's a link to the draft map, should you not have one. "Here's what is
left of the High Lakes", thread.

http://www.4x4trailfinders.com/topic,121.0.html

Ken,

[porterwagner]

Ken, what's wrong with posting what you sent out elsewhere. It's good information and we're trying to spread the word like wildfire. I'll be sending you e mail adresses soon, out of 150+ names about 35 have email adresses. Just goes to show not everybodys online these  days!! Anyhow I'll keep telling everybody else unless that's bad to do.

[Pantheus]

WHAT'S WRONG?

You took a PRIVATE communication and posted it to the Wild Wooley Web, available to all the search engines, and anyone who could find it.

It was PRIVATE!  IT IS ILLEGAL !  IT IS MORALLY WRONG!  Like usual Torey you've let your emotions and lack of understanding dictate something that HAS to be worked through the system.

We DON"T need a bunch of forms saying don't close any trials... useless  ...  we need thoughtful, thinking, planned descriptive input on every segment...    WHY that segment is important,  what its value to each user is...  and a comment form and quad map for EACH segment.

READ the comment form !   It IS useless without the quad map attached, and highlighted with each route you are speaking about on each comment form.  No M/C shop or quad shop nor most OHV shops can explain all of that to a user...  mass marketing of only a comment form  and flooding Susanville with them will be useless until and unless done PER THE INSTRUCTION on the form....have YOU even read it?

Why in the hell would we want to let the USFS know what our strategy is?  Do you think we knew theirs?

Use your head, or get out of the way.

Ken

[porterwagner]

Theres nothing but good information that you sent out in that. And it's all based on facts from what is going on. It's all information the forest service ALREADY knows and they provided us with that information. What, they are going to know our strategy of trying to spread the word about what trails we need to keep open?? This is unbelievable. People do need to get the comment form and it is up to them to fill it out for their reasons why they would like it to remain open. I am fully aware that each person needs to fill it out and send it in themselves, they do need to be flooded with each persons own responses. So much for trying to help out, now I see why so many people who try to get involved just end up saying screw it. I guess getting people together in a different way other than the internet was pretty lame. 33 out of 140 names had e mail adresses. Is there a problem there? absolutely. Who's up for phone calls? I'm about ready to re-evaluate who I'm actually trying to help. What good is it doing for me and for others? You tell me how posting that benefits the forest service? I would like to hear from others if this will hurt us. It's beneficial information that those who went to the meeting already know, including the forest service. I must have really f****d up the "strategy". Whoops, my mistake, kick me off the team. Be appreciative for us even getting people together and trying to spread this information. That's 140 extra people who are now in the know. I may as well join the other side.

[tomass15]

porterwagner,  I think your right, we need to get the word out and not just to the web.  I'm not on the web to much and really don't go searching out land use issues.  I have several friends that are non wheelrs, but like to take a trip to the hills if only to cut a christmas tree.  They will all fill out and sign the forms as they understand the govenrment and their take an inch today, take the rest tomorrow.  There is so much speculation and rumor going on now, we do need facts posted. 

and one last thing, don't let one person ruin your drive to help keep trails open.  There are plenty of us that appriciate all that everybody is doing and doing what they feel is right at the time.

[chicomecha]

It would really bother me if you took  my private email and posted it to the internet without permission.  Nothing wrong with consuming the information, and making your own post in your own words to fit the segmant of the 4x4 population you are working to help get involved.  But posting someone's email - yikes!

Different people are effective in different ways.  I think the FS will do the job of sorting out the wheat from the chaf, if they get both.  Theirs is a fairly structured process, and it does take time.  Trying to rush the government is seldom a good idea, as that will just lead to closures, rather than solutions.  It also does not work.  We do know that the more unified and organized out voice is, the easier it is for them to deal with us.  It is a fact that BIG likes to do business with BIG.  the FS is already BIG.  As we organize, we will become BIG.  If we just all do our own thing, we continue to be left behind in the process.  The master of this is of course the Sierra Club.  Did you send in your CA4WD membership yet?

I want to go wheeling on Pipejam this weekend.  I can't.  I'm upset, yet at the same time, if I take a minute to find out why, which is exactly the info you asked for, perhaps we will see it may have been needed.  We do not have all the information yet, and we are ALL pulling teeth to get it out of them, but it sounds like it is coming.  Who cares WHO is able to get it.  Just be glad we are getting to the bottom of this.  And stick around for the solutions Phase.  We'll be there soon.

[hineyman]

As a past president of the Chico club known as the Norcal Crawlers I have been watching what is being said and printed in various forums concerning the High Lakes OHV.  Ken, as you are the new Cal 4wd rep for the area, may I suggest that that you refrain from from belittling people who are trying to help you.  Perhaps reading a few books on leadership would be of value to you from the way I see you treating folks on line.  Furthermore, though your knowlege may be vast, you do not know everything and it would be of value to you to use the knowlege that others have gained as we all work toward a common goal.  Finally, thank you for the work you are doing and when it is all said and done may we have the enjoyment of our public lands for generations to come.

[Pantheus]

Dan,

You are right, and I should have remembered to not put fingers to keyboard, while I was that pissed over finding my private email posted to the web.

He and I have kissed and made up - well, not kissed, and understand each other better now, and since we are working for the same goal, understanding each others perspectives better, as well.

I've had more management and leadership courses during my 41 years of Corporate Management, for an International giant (then) than I can count.  I just needed to remember to not vent in public.

We all need to work on the same team, as we all have the same goal, even if we come from a huge age difference, experience background, and "time in the field".

Ken